Do mediums serve a purpose on an investigation?

[Tony]

I asked this on one of the earlier incarnations of the OWNE forum, before we switched to SMF software, so as it proved an interesting debate a couple of years ago, I thought I'd see if peoples' views on this have altered in any way.

Otherworld North East investigations now operate as purely data collection exercises, without any spiritualist input from a medium.  SO, do you think a medium (operating purely as a spiritualist medium for the length of the investigation) has a role to play in investigations, and if so why and what would the medium be expected to achieve?  If not, why not and what problems with using mediums as a standalone tool could there be?

Oh, and keep the debate polite and to the point!

[Sarah]

Think everyone already knows my opinion on this one but I'll say it again for those who don't 

1.  No, I don't think any form of spiritual input on an investigation is required or indeed useful.  Reason being, what exactly is the point?  So bloomin' what if someone picks up on a John Jones (not that you frequently even get a surname anyway - meaning its even more pointless! )  What use does that serve to an investigation group unless they're out there solely for the purpose of going out to tell people their property is "haunted" by a Mr So-and-So who died in 1856?

2.  Problems with a "spiritualist medium" being there on an investigation for a group that DON'T wish to know/care what they have to say are plenty.  Largely involving them feeling only able to "pick up on things" and not focus on what the group is intending on achieving.  (In the sake of Otherworld, obviously now wishes to purely gain hard data).  If they spend their time focusing on what Mr So-and-So is telling them they're not going to be focusing on recording data like they've been asked to do.  Also, other issues I have with the likes of many a "spiritualist medium" is that they seem incapable of NOT saying things that then influence the rest of the group - be it conciously or otherwise.  Even just simply saying "I'm picking up on a male presence, the energy feels negative" can instantly put other people on edge.  Thereby meaning the presence of someone like that can instantly affect the results of an investigation, meaning the investigation (in my eyes) was ultimately useless and everyone should've stayed at home and watched a good movies instead! 

The biggest issue with using a medium as a standalone tool in my eyes is simply that they provide zero evidence of what they're saying is accurate or indeed even remotely true.  Lets face it, 99% of the time you only ever get a first name and/or a date or something else that is extremely easy to "guess" at.  Probably 75% of those times you'll be given a name that is so ridiculously common (or was during a certain century).  Instantly ringing alarm bells in anyone who isn't a medium (or at least I'd hope that was the case!)  And when do you ever get a first name, middle name and last name, the date of this supposed persons birth and the date of their death?  In my experience..... NEVER.

Therefore again bringing me back nicely to my first point.... what IS the point in them?  Utterly useless on an investigation.  Proves nothing and takes time out of them doing something the team is aiming to do. 

[lowrider]

Well I am a medium and feel they do have a role to play.
But i would never consider a medium as the prime "tool".
But often mediums can come up with info, now on this point i have to assume that the medium is trusted, that info can then be checked,info that can be researched.
I.E trusted in that they have not researched it themselves.
For example, at the Keep i came up with some info and a name that according to Paul the caretaker " was something that no other medium had picked up on".
I do forget what that info was, it was some time ago, but the fact that the info was not as easy to find, I did later as an exercise ask members of a forum to look for the info, most took some time to come up with links.
So while that would not offer " proof" it did offer a avenue of research that it is doubtful would have been found.
But i feel if a medium is used they should be paired with someone who’s job it is to simply record any info for later research.
Some may consider that a waste of a " body" but to feel that is i think a blinkered view.
On another thread i have commented on the use of recording equipment, I feel in many cases that is equally a waste of time as any evidence gathered would not stand up to professional scrutiny so is worthless.
To conclude i feel that both methods of data gathering, medium and or instrumentation has their place but neither should be simply accepted as infallible.

[Sarah]

Good points there, lowrider 

I think we've discussed this ourselves before now with regards to whether or not you often get full sets of information or not from "the other side" (for lack of a better term!) - i.e. whether you regularly get the first name, last name and specific dates to go with that particular name.  For example, can you remember whether or not the info you picked up at the Keep (although you can understandly not remember the name itself) - can you remember if it was a first and last name and/or a specific date associated with that person?

As for any non-medium or sceptic in general, its hard to even research whether they existed or not if you've only got a John or a Mary to go by rather than a last name too and at least one or two dates of reference for the person. 

[lowrider]

I am struggling to reacll the info.
It was a name,event and and date but i really could be wrong now.
As i say the fact it was not the usual stuff that crops up and that the caretaker commented on its rareity was worthy of comment.
He has seen all sorts of teams,medium come and go so has seen and heard it all.

[Jo]

Regardless of whether one is a medium or not, I feel input is valuable from many different angles simply to open up perspectives that perhaps haven't been thought of previously.

I don't blindly believe anything someone tells me - medium or sceptic - but I am interested in their opinions.

[SilverS]

I go along with that ...

[Gareth]

In a group like OWNE (and as NWPR used to be), I don't think mediums are of any use on investigations.

I don't think the environment can be controlled sufficiently for the information they provide to be of any use.

[lowrider]

In a group like OWNE (and as NWPR used to be), I don't think mediums are of any use on investigations.

I don't think the environment can be controlled sufficiently for the information they provide to be of any use.

How do you control an environement

[Gareth]

Exactly the problem.

[pandora]

But can you control the environment sufficiently for any data collected to be truly reliable?

[Gareth]

You can control the variables far more when you understand the tool you are using to make the measurements.

[Suzanne]

I think that mediums/psychics do have a small role to play on investigations and can contribute information that may or may not help the progression of the investigation.
I see it that mediums/psychics are a phenomenon in themselves and can be used in experiments.
Myself being a sensitive it is sometimes hard to withdraw away from what i call 'my gift/ability', but i can do it. As long as the whole investigation is not based on those old investigation ways of 'the mediums walkround' then it should be ok. I mean maybe in breaks the mediums of a team could possible have a walkround and make notes that could be included in reports in a section that is soley dedicated to the mediumsitic side of things.
I think sometimes the balance and mix needs to be there

( Will write some more tomorrow i am knackered and need me pit  )

[lowrider]

You can control the variables far more when you understand the tool you are using to make the measurements.

Surely by there name "variables" all you can do is estimate not control

[Gareth]

Perhaps it's just a language thing.

What I'm sure you're all aware that I mean is that if you understand what may cause temperature fluctuations (for example), you can take steps to avoid the natural causes as much as possible.  It's very difficult to ensure that the medium can only be getting their information from other-than-natural sources, and therefore their information is of little valid use, in my opinion.

But the important point is that the tool you are using to make the detection is very well understood.  We know how a thermometer works.  We know how an EMF meter works.  We know how video cameras work.  We DON'T know how a medium works, what they are detecting, etc...  It's like giving someone a little black box with a few flashing lights and a numeric display and telling them that it detects ghosts, but no-one knows anything about how it works.  Since we don't know how the numbers are calculated, it's not of great use.

If the group is genuinely trying to investigate the paranormal scientifically, then mediums are of no use.